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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 6:28 AM
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Subtronik wrote:(((stereofect))) wrote:It's truely worth watching, if you care to. I watched at least half of it, but had to call it a night. I'll finish watching the rest of it later today. It's a pretty chilling view of the aftermath of war, especially in the style it was filmed and presented.
No doubt, eh?
I'd download it if I were you. You know... save it for later when you have more time to commit to it. It's a keeper AFAIC....
You also might want to look out for his 1971 film Fatama Morgana (I think that's how it's spelled). That and this one make great bookends to each other.
Quote:Thanks for the link.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Sonic Wallpaper
Joined: 05/22/01
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1266
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 8:37 AM
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(((stereofect))) wrote:Me too. But films like this one cause me to think otherwise...
That was a great film - reminded me of Koyanastatsi
the firemen in that film work must be getting paid $120K/yr each - there's no way anyone could do this work on any 'normal' salary
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 10:40 AM
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Sonic Wallpaper wrote:That was a great film - reminded me of Koyanastatsi
I was trying to think of what film I'd seen that reminded me of this style and you nailed it.
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 5:42 PM
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(((stereofect))) wrote:The scientific community can't predict with any accuracy what the weather is going to be like two to three days from now. What makes them think they can predict what the weather, let alone the climate, is going to be like in the future is baffling to be sure.
That's exactly what worries me.
These greenies preaching the coming environmental apocalypse in 10, 20, 100 years really haven't a clue as to what's going to happen to Earth down the road.
I'm on board with protecting the planet, but this fanaticism scares me. Chicken little comes to mind.
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Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Friday, November 9, 2007 at 6:40 PM
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Hoax bacteria study tricks climate skeptics
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 10, 2007 at 7:14 AM
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I know this is a few days old, but it's relevant to the discussion.
Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’
I understand that climate change is happening, I just don't personally believe it's man's fault.
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 10, 2007 at 9:11 AM
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Clinton Camp Admits To Planting Global Warming Question
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 10, 2007 at 12:52 PM
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Regardless of what's causing climate change, I'm all for cleaner energy, less waste and less pollution.
I'll be buying an all electric car in 2010, or sooner if they're available.
http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/general-motors/gm-electric-car-to-arrive-in-2010/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTcdfkihE4
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Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 10, 2007 at 9:01 PM
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http://www.willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/Zenn.html
the Zenn
electric, but...
regular speeds, regular size and only $13,000
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 10, 2007 at 11:26 PM
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Will the charging stations for these electric cars be solar powered?
Otherwise I see the electric car as counter-productive if charging them means having to connect them to the main power-grid... a power-grid by and large supplied by coal fired generating stations.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 11, 2007 at 12:00 AM
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they just plug in anywhere - your house most likely - those Zenn cars are supposed to hold a charge for 120+ miles - which for me is a weeks commute. so its up to the individual or how their house is rigged up - although you can buy solar panels and converters powerful enough to run big appliances for about $100, so I'm sure they can charge up a capacitor battery driven vehicle regardless of how your house is set up. and my understanding is they charge fairly quickly. so it doesn't have to be an issue.
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 11, 2007 at 3:50 AM
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I understand.
I drive over 600kms a week. All highway of course.
Sure would be a quiet ride though. Would be nice during the summer. Especially in a convertable.
I'll be watching this one....
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 11, 2007 at 6:04 AM
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(((stereofect))) wrote:Will the charging stations for these electric cars be solar powered?
Otherwise I see the electric car as counter-productive if charging them means having to connect them to the main power-grid... a power-grid by and large supplied by coal fired generating stations.
Gotta start somewhere.
Is your house or apartment connected to a power grid? If so, I'm sure it's using a lot more power than an all electric car would.
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Tecknixia
Joined: 08/15/01
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 108
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Friday, November 16, 2007 at 1:49 PM
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fingertwister wrote:In this particular case, a lot of the actions you take to prevent GCC will have positive side effects, e.g. consuming less of earth's resources will also give less pollution overall.
I agree and I'm all for doing things that create positive change... however... it's not very direct, and therefore it can easily be misleaded. There can also be negative side affects as well. Ultimately though, ceasing our dependancy on oil and moving toward more environmentally friendly methods would definitely have a TREMENDOUS positive impact overall.
I'm also not against commercial applications of beneficial technology... I mean, like you suggested, they go hand in hand. The ideas I came up with earlier may not have a efficient economic strategy as they are, but if focused on, could open up a whole new realm of new technologies that could be applied in the near future and have economic benefits.
The problem I have is the way everyone is viewing things. We're not focused on the environment, we're focused on a warming planet. Well, what happens when people start focusing on cheap and efficient ideas to cool the atmosphere, but not on helping the environment? Long before we reduce carbon emittions I'm sure someone is going to provide a bandade solution to get around it. There's already an idea of shooting sulfur particals into the higher atmosphere to reflect the sunlight to create a quick and efficient way to cool the Earth. It can also be done in specific regions to add cooling where needed and not where it isn't needed. This creates all sorts of political and ethical issues. Who gets to control the average global temperature, and at what temperature should it be set? One temperature might benefit a certain region, while causing a negative affect in another. Can we really call that a positive side effect? How many times has mankind already put their uneducated influence where it doesn't belong?
On a smaller scale... how about CFLs (Compact Flourescent Lights)? I thought about giving into the craze and purchasing some for my home as well... after all, they'll save me money right? Well, after learning more about these things I'm kind of disappointed in the amount of progress we're making. I found out that these things use a mercury gas, and they're supposed to be recycled and not thrown away. How many people do you think are going to start throwing these things away? How many people have already done so, not even knowing they weren't supposed to? I also read that there are procedures to dealing with mercury gas, such as opening a window in your home, etc. This kind of reminds me of things like lead based paint. Sure, let's cool the earth and save money by poisoning ourselves. I would rather us focus on reducing the costs of LED technology... which is even more efficient then CFLs. After all, in the past, CFL bulbs used to cost the same amount as LED solutions do now.
I must add... I'm not totally against the idea of controlling the world's climate, even though I sound against it... it could have many benefits. It would just be another way we have learned to program the world around us.
I'm not against the progress, I'm against the presentation. I think the way we are going about things is through motivating people to change by creating a false fear... and while that may be a way of lighting a fire under our butts, we should consider that it may be causing many negative side effects. There can be better and more efficient ways of doing things in my opinion.
Most recent track: Tecknixia - Technology 2009 Version  Strm  Dnldnonzerosumgain.freeforums.org |
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Neotone
Joined: 04/22/02
Posts: 70
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, November 17, 2007 at 8:10 PM
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I'm one of the ones that is scared by global warming. And I think it is man-caused. Why? Because I've looked at the data, and I saw a correlation between man's population skyrocketing, man's widespread use of combustion power, and an increase in Carbon Dioxide gas, which is no surprise to me since the release of Carbon Dioxide gas is intrinsic to what it means to burn. It's a scientific fact that Carbon Dioxide gas causes the greenhouse effect, and so it's no surprise that we've seen a global increase in temperature.
No, Earth is obviously not going to turn into a fireball, but who knows, it might turn into Venus. The problem is, we can't predict what will happen, but since we know (at least I think we know) that man is causing global warming, it's man's responsibility not to go blundering off into the abyss. Actually what's really scary is biodiversity. Humans are changing their environment enormously quicker than evolution has time to keep up, so we're seeing a widespread loss of species everywhere around the world. All of life on Earth constitutes a massive and complex system, which we've hardly begun to understand. It's like we have a gigantic ball of mud and rocks, and we're washing away the mud between the rocks. The mud holds the rocks together, so it's hard to predict when we'll begin to see a massive collapse. All these species are interrelated, so we don't know when we might really strike a nerve.
Also, I heard that all of these so-called scientific studies that debunk global warming are sponsored by oil companies who want to protect their profits. I believe it because the money motivator is just too strong.
On the other hand, we're going to run out of oil in about 50 years, so my hope is by that time, no serious damage will have been caused. Then again, I guess coal is the real issue isn't it...
This life is a joke, and nobody's laughing.
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 3:20 AM
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global warming is not caused by carbon dioxide
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Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 11:47 AM
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Quote:global warming is not caused by carbon dioxide
well, ok, but it's the internet - anybody can say anything. Gary Novak is quoted all over the place because of his views, however it appears that he is probably a nutbag;
http://moonflake.wordpress.com/2006/11/10/midweek-cuckoogary-novak/
alarmist claims are being made because it is an alarming situation. that is to be expected. extreme reactions are to be expected because the situation is a harbinger of major shifts in money and power and the status quo wants to keep it status quo for obvious reasons. in either case we all need to read between the lines.
sure there are cycles that have little or nothing to do with the human flea population on mother natures back. I personally don't think it's got anything to do with volcanoes or animal excrement - both of those have been around for a long, long time.
fwiw, the only REALLY big change I can see that matches the anomalies science is discovering that may relate to global warming is the industrial revolution. that'd be us.
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 12:40 PM
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I'll start buying into the hype when people like Al Gore can get something as simple as 'more intense hurricanes due to global warming' right.
Like I said, these past two years have been mild hurricane seasons compared to thirty years ago.
Did global warming take a break or is it a bunch of crap?
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 1:07 PM
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Michael Chocholak wrote:fwiw, the only REALLY big change I can see that matches the anomalies science is discovering that may relate to global warming is the industrial revolution. that'd be us.
What about the REALLY big climate change of the ice age? Obviously that was not mans fault.
Or does the ice age just not count in the overall debate?
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Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, November 18, 2007 at 2:46 PM
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well of course it 'counts'. especially for those that had to live through them (or didn't). but my perspective would be - if we can go through a cycle like that prior to all the changes humans have made - primarily negative ones regarding environment and climate - then what might we be looking at now that we have thrown multiple monkey wrenches into the global machine?
the records from previous ice ages don't match the anomalies we have created - certainly not in terms of degree. it might not be another ice age anyway, who knows what will happen. buy an electric car, put in neon bulbs (which supposedly pollute less with their mercury than the coal that would otherwise be burned to power conventional bulbs) - all good karmic actions. but buy some popcorn too cuz the play is already in motion and the gov'ts & corps - those really in a position to do something - are only making token efforts at best.
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
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