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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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Debunking Global Warming Myths
Friday, March 16, 2007 at 9:26 PM
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The documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" exposes numerous lies and myths presented as fact by those who believe in the unproven hypothesis (Al Gore in the USA and David Suzuki in Canada) that human-created carbon dioxide (CO2) is the driver of the Earth's warming climate.
Expert after expert in this film blasts craters into the theory that CO2 -- which only makes up 0.054% of the earth's atmosphere -- has ever driven climate. Ice core records, in fact, prove the opposite, that CO2 lags warming by as much as 800 years.
Plus...
"Volcanoes produce more CO2 every year than all human activity."
How's that for an inconvenient truth.....
You can see the film here
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, March 21, 2007 at 6:20 PM
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http://schnittshow.970wfla.com/globalwarming.html
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reconsiderate
Joined: 09/29/07
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 76
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Friday, October 12, 2007 at 12:56 PM
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My girlfriend is totally devoted to this kind of stuff (on the side of those who believe in global warming). All in all, it really just seems to me like the term "climate change" is more appropriate.
Anyway, gonna check out these vids... hopefully my gf won't get too worked up about them. 
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Tecknixia
Joined: 08/15/01
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 108
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, October 20, 2007 at 4:33 AM
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You know what I think?
I think people are gaining even more wealth due to the fact that Global Warming is a TREND.
I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's trendy to invest in Green Technologies... if you're a business, you can save money and whether you're an investor or a business owner... your focus on protecting the Earth will make you look like a hero too!
I'm not saying it's bad... but why else would Wal-Mart be focusing on it so much? They've even admitted on a video on their website that they didn't really care until they noticed their customers reacted strongly to environmentally friendly products. Yeah, save money, make money, and improve your image by looking like a hero! I mean, why WOULDN'T you do it?
More and more, you're going to look like an ass for not "Going Green" or focusing on "Sustainability". I mean, what's the matter with you? Don't you CARE about the environment??? You've just lost a customer.
It's a trend, and with all new big trends, come investment opportunities. It's even better if you start to BELIEVE you're really trying to save the world... that way it's easier to convince others to invest in the same technologies that you're into.
Don't get me wrong, I agree we should protect the environment that we have, but it's the ignorance of REAL problems that I'm against.
We're saying catastrophes are right around the corner yet we don't even REALLY know WHY the earth is warming??? The reality is we really don't know what's going to happen.
THINK about it, what's really likely to happen? Sorry, the world is NOT going to end like they say.
Sea levels will rise, cities will fall into the ocean, animal species will go extinct, territorial wars will start, islands will drown in the sea, true... but, we're going to gain land and new natural habitats, not only towards the north and south poles, but also in the mountains at higher altitudes. What? You mean the world won't turn into a fire ball and float away into space forever? Of course not.
You see, the people that are preaching the world is ending, are CLAIMING to focus on the long term effects of global warming... but what's really going on is they're only focusing on the SHORT term effects of slowing the planet's temperature. We'll save cities and businesses and keep wars from starting... they're on the edge of their seats waiting for the temperature readings and the whole world exclaiming, "WE DID IT!!!" Not only for the excitement of creating a positive change in the world, but also for the fame of being a hero, and the huge wallet that comes with investing in the new technologies... but that's all SHORT term.
What if we did slow global warming? Is that going to stop a natural ice age? Is it going to stop the natural warming and cooling cycles of the Earth? Are species going to suddenly stop becoming extinct due to our intervention? Hardly. Species have been going extinct since the Dinosaurs ruled the Earth... and no doubt before that even. What good will stopping Global Warming do for the Earth? There are obviously ways we can benefit from it, I'm not against the research aspect of it... but pretending to SAVE THE WORLD... yeah right, get real. Another thought... what if we were wrong, and reducing CO2 levels doesn't have an effect on the rising temperatures? Oops, too bad.
What I'm wondering is, why aren't these people equally concerned with LONG TERM issues? Instead of running from it before we know what's going on, how about we learn from it first, learn whether it's good or bad or completely normal, and then start focusing on fixing what needs to be fixed? Or, maybe we just need to learn how to deal with it. My problem with what's going on is that people are being completely narrow minded about these issues. They are carrying on like it's the only thing that matters right now.
While we're doing research on Gobal Warming, why don't we start focusing on some better more important ideas then reducing CO2 emissions? My suggestion... since the Earth heats and cools naturally, why don't we create ADAPTIVE strategies for dealing with these effects. OH.... that's right... it COSTS MONEY.
You're in a big city just off the coast... waters are rising... what would you do? Would you try to figure out a way to get all the countries in the world to reduce their CO2 emissions so that it MIGHT keep the waters from rising... or would you try to figure out ways to protect the city from rising waters? Well, what's your first thought? How about if the sea water has eroded half of your backyard already, and is approaching about a foot a year? Do you install energy efficient flourescent lightbulbs, or do you start looking for a new place?
See, there's tremendous benefit to creating adaptive strategies to changing atmospheric conditions... yet we'd rather stunt economies such as our own and China's by punishing us for releasing so many CO2s. Here again... I'm not against reducing CO2s, I'm just saying we're not looking at the issue directly, we're looking at it indirectly... and while it could be beneficial to the environment, it's not going to solve our problems of changing climate. Thriving economies have more potential for finding out the problems and solving them then stunted economies.
By focusing on adaptive strategies, we would not only be helping to preserve our environment, but also expand our capabilities as human beings for living within otherwise uninhabitable environments. By focusing on adaptive strategies, we would be supporting the same technologies that could eliminate the population problem by giving us room to expand. We would be supporting the technologies that could help us live on other planets... and now for the kicker... we would be supporting the technologies that could help us preserve existing species. So now tell me... why AREN'T we focusing on these technologies?
I'm talking long term, things that would benefit future generations. Imagine... try not to laugh... California coastal metropolises, STILL existing in the future, but underwater. No, really, think about it... how many more resources may be hidden beneath the water... how many more forms of life are there yet to be discovered down there? Think of how much more space there is to expand... 2/3rds of the world is underwater, yet it's barely been touched. How about underground cities? Don't worry... you'll still have sunlight, not hard at all to do with fiber optics. Also, talk about a boost for research in geothermal power. Why not create a controlled environment for tropical species underground during an ice age? What about growing food in Canadian soil during the winter? Sure it might be below zero outside the city, but within, it's comfortable year round. Or maybe you'd like to visit your relatives who've called Mars their new home. Maybe not as much of a reality, but how about a thermally shielded city living underneath the ice of Antarctica? All of this, which sounds like scifi is possible and could save humans from an event that would otherwise wipe us off of the face of the planet.
With that in mind, how does it make the people preaching Global Warming look? Narrow minded and short sighted I say.
Most recent track: Tecknixia - Technology 2009 Version  Strm  Dnldnonzerosumgain.freeforums.org |
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Solar Research
Joined: 05/29/07
Posts: 5
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, October 20, 2007 at 10:21 PM
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Last I heard it was all about the redistribution of wealth.
Whatever the case, I don't care as long as the Government doesn't try to run my life.
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Solar Research
Joined: 05/29/07
Posts: 5
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Saturday, October 20, 2007 at 10:23 PM
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Good post btw Tecknixia.
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Kylo
Joined: 02/16/05
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 787
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Monday, October 22, 2007 at 12:12 PM
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Quote:You mean the world won't turn into a fire ball and float away into space forever? Of course not.
You know- give or take a few billion years this's actually going to happen when the moon leaves the earth's orbit; which it is slowly going to do. But only after the sun swells up into a red dwarf and takes out mars as well. 
Sorry, I had to point that out being an ameature astronomer here. hehe...
If we all lived on Greenland I think we'd be pretty much convinced about global warming as you can actually watch the island melting off into the sea. NASA's Goddard Space center takes images of the "Italy sized" chunks of ice that have dissappeared over the course of 40 years; which are very very massive compared to recent past events before 1970.
This is what we know- our climate is changing. What we don't know- is what the leading cause of the warming is...
Al Gore says Cow flatulence and oil combustion...
I'd have to say that I agree, only because I love my bean and cheese burritos with my intake of half a gallon of milk within a day etc... (Yes gideon, I finally decided soy milk is not for me) lol
"Energizer bunny arrested- charged with battery."
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Tecknixia
Joined: 08/15/01
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 108
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 at 2:25 AM
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Kylo wrote:Sorry, I had to point that out being an ameature astronomer here. hehe...
Hehe, not a problem. I've heard of something like that before. Hmm, kinda off topic, but, I thought red dwarfs were cooler then our sun is... I'm guessing it would get bigger? Does that mean it would be less dense? If a red dwarf is bigger then our sun, would that make ours a yellow dwarf? Just curious, I could research the answers, but I thought I'd ask on here just for the sake of conversation. Of course the thought of this happening also makes me think there's even more of a reason for us to establish a presence in space.
Kylo wrote:If we all lived on Greenland I think we'd be pretty much convinced about global warming as you can actually watch the island melting off into the sea.
Hehe, I enjoy conversation, so please don't think that I'm trying to argue or force opinions. I'm just speaking my mind because I enjoy it.
Don't get me wrong, I COMPLETELY agree that global warming IS a reality. I've seen the comparison photographs of enormous glaciers that have simply vanished over a few decades, it's really amazing if you look into it. I've also heard stories of people having to leave their islands because the islands are sinking due to sea level and errosion.. but my point is, it's BEEN a reality for 100s of thousands of years, the Earth has had long periods of warming and cooling according to the studies of the ice cores from Antarctica, and maybe other sources, I'm not sure. The thing is, we're JUST NOW starting to really pay attention to it. Even if we take care of the CO2 levels, the Earth is STILL going to be warming and cooling... so my point is, we're focusing so much attention to fighting the changing temperatures, when we really need to know how to adapt to it, since it'll be happening anyway.
I think we need to be asking questions like, so how DO we move a whole island of people, and their belongings and culture, to another location so they won't be swept away with their island during a storm? How DO we prevent costal cities from flooding, hurricanes, and tsunamis... or even earthquakes for that matter!? So far it seems like reconstruction is the leading solution. How do we deal with lack of water where dry areas are expanding? How do we keep people from fighting over these things? How do we adapt to climate change?
We are approaching the problems in an ineffective way. CO2 MIGHT have something to do with it, but the way we're headed, emissions are STILL only going to increase, so either way we might as well try to be prepared for whatever is coming our way.
My guess is that it has more to do with ocean temperatures and water vapor then anything, of course that's just another theory to consider until we REALLY know what's going on. The main thing is we really just need to learn more about it before pointing fingers at anything.
Ignorance gets you nowhere. There are many ancient cities across the world that are now at the bottom of the ocean for two reasons... 1) They didn't know enough about the planet to predict their doom, and 2) They weren't ready with a solution for when it happened.
Kylo wrote:(Yes gideon, I finally decided soy milk is not for me) lol
You know there is also rice milk and almond milk out there too. I haven't tried the almond stuff, but I drink rice milk with vanilla flavor regularily. I haven't tried the soy stuff and I'm not that interested in it either.
Most recent track: Tecknixia - Technology 2009 Version Strm Dnldnonzerosumgain.freeforums.org |
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 at 5:30 AM
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We need to get serious and clean up shit like this first before we get all panicky and fall victim to the global warming myth.
Pollution like that (and there are plenty of examples all over the world) is far worse and a hellova lot more detrimental to this planet than any temperature change will ever be.
Fucking humans!!
If we aren't killing and/or exploiting each other--for purely selfish reasons--we're raping the earth and doing everything in our power to destroy this planet and turn it into a inhospitable desert.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Kylo
Joined: 02/16/05
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 787
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 at 11:44 AM
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Woah!!! I think somebody needs to get their ass kicked for this one!  TWO times the size of TEXAS???
Yeah, global warming is a natural cycle it seems... I think the atmosphere is doing okay though because these last past weeks I've been going shirtless on my runs on the beach and I'm not getting burned at all like I used to.
Quote:Hehe, I enjoy conversation, so please don't think that I'm trying to argue or force opinions. I'm just speaking my mind because I enjoy it.
Axe the questions fo' keepzin it real brotha~
Nice find steve.
"Energizer bunny arrested- charged with battery."
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Tecknixia
Joined: 08/15/01
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 108
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, October 23, 2007 at 12:41 PM
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I totally agree about the pollution. We should find a way to not only co-exist, but also be a benefit to nature.
Quote:Humans and livestock and pets are now 98% of the total worlds mass of vertebrates on land and air.
Quote:Ten thousand years ago the humans and livestock and pets were not even 1 tenth of 1%.
Quote:Over billions of years, on a unique sphere, chance has painted a thin covering of life -- complex, improbable, wonderful and fragile. Suddenly we humans (a recently arrived species no longer subject to the checks and balances inherent in nature), have grown in population, technology, and intelligence to a position of terrible power: we now wield the paintbrush.
The quotes are from Paul MacCready (09/25/1925 - 08/28/2007)
Most recent track: Tecknixia - Technology 2009 Version Strm Dnldnonzerosumgain.freeforums.org |
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fingertwister
Joined: 09/25/01
Posts: 33
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, October 28, 2007 at 4:01 AM
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I have to say I disagree completely and entirely...
If we are going to debate where to start for ages then NOTHING is going to happen. It is actually irrelevant whether GCC is caused by us or by "natural" progress.
This is exactly why organisations like Greenpeace and others fail, despite their admirable goals. As soon as somebody wants to do something in a bigger scale, then "commercial" interests are needed to make something happen (there is no way anything big would happen without some MAJOR ulterior economical interests). But when there are commercial interests, then there will need to be compromises and there is where Greenpeace loses interest and feel the need of bashing the entire thing: "They turned it into some sort of commercial crap and didn't care about our noble motives". Well... It doesn't matter how noble the motives may be, because if nothing happens then the commercial option would still be better, even though there may have been compromises.
In this particular case, a lot of the actions you take to prevent GCC will have positive side effects, e.g. consuming less of earth's resources will also give less pollution overall. This is regardless if it is done by more resource-consuming devices (such as "green" cars) or a general more "sound" lifestyle where people actually start to consume less.
So GCC is a hype? Should we
A: Follow and exploit the hype (regardless if we believe in it or not) and help making the environment better?
B: Bash everyone that believes in GCC and tell them they are focusing on the wrong thing?
Which is the most "ethical" way to go? B.
Which is the one that actually may make a difference in our lifetime? A.
For me it is A all the way.
/Daniel
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Sonic Wallpaper
Joined: 05/22/01
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1266
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Sunday, October 28, 2007 at 9:11 AM
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Good points Daniel - the byproduct of conservative and pro-environmental actions and lifestyles is better for everyone no matter what the state the planet is in.
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Thursday, November 1, 2007 at 8:08 PM
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Sonic Wallpaper wrote:the byproduct of conservative and pro-environmental actions and lifestyles is better for everyone no matter what the state the planet is in.
I agree.
Personally though, I get sick of people saying it's mans fault all of the time.
We were told two years ago that we'd be dealing with the worst hurricane seasons ever due to global warming, but now it seems the intensity of hurricanes have declined over the past two years.
It simply points to the fact that no one really knows what's happening to the planet.
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, November 6, 2007 at 5:27 AM
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Subtronik wrote:Personally though, I get sick of people saying it's mans fault all of the time.
Me too. But films like this one cause me to think otherwise...
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, November 6, 2007 at 7:20 PM
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What does this mean exactly?
"By fusing surreal footage of the physical destruction and mental anguish wrought upon Kuwait in the wake of the Gulf War with a fictional story arc of extraterrestrial beings and landscapes"
Does this mean that this video is just total hype? Kind of looks like it to me.
I'm mainly concerned that in the future man will be considered Earths enemy, and targeted for destruction. That or we'll be taxed to death for environmental reasons.
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Tuesday, November 6, 2007 at 7:33 PM
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Back to my last point though:
Al Gore and others predicted the worst hurricane seasons in years due to global warming, yet, both last year and this year have been the calmest hurricane seasons on record.
What gives?
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 5:22 AM
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Subtronik wrote:"By fusing surreal footage of the physical destruction and mental anguish wrought upon Kuwait in the wake of the Gulf War with a fictional story arc of extraterrestrial beings and landscapes"
I know where that comes from. It stems from the fact that Werner claims this film to be science fiction not a documentary. Ignore it, it's just bullshit. There's nothing fictional about it.
Quote:Does this mean that this video is just total hype? Kind of looks like it to me.
No... it's Werner Herzog's vision (beautifully shot btw) of the Kuwait aftermath. i.e. man's careless, thoughtless, selfish and egotistical destruction of the earth done purely to satisfy the ol' 'if I can't have it, nobody can' attitude. It's truely worth watching, if you care to.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 5:26 AM
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Subtronik wrote:Back to my last point though:
Al Gore and others predicted the worst hurricane seasons in years due to global warming, yet, both last year and this year have been the calmest hurricane seasons on record.
What gives?
Too much dependancy on computer models!!
The scientific community can't predict with any accuracy what the weather is going to be like two to three days from now. What makes them think they can predict what the weather, let alone the climate, is going to be like in the future is baffling to be sure.
Around these parts we have a saying: "don't like the weather, wait fifteen minutes."
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
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Subtronik
Joined: 01/14/03
Posts: 1193
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RE: Debunking Global Warming Myths
Wednesday, November 7, 2007 at 5:38 AM
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(((stereofect))) wrote:It's truely worth watching, if you care to.
I watched at least half of it, but had to call it a night. I'll finish watching the rest of it later today.
It's a pretty chilling view of the aftermath of war, especially in the style it was filmed and presented.
Thanks for the link.
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