P9FM
Joined: 03/29/02
Posts: 198
|
|
F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 8:55 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
I am very bummed out 
My latest Lucy track (Feed Lucy) is a total failure - it just sucks.
My own limitations as a musician have been made glaringly apparent on this one and I am not sure what to do.
In some ways it has made me question my whole approach in using Metasynth and my dependance on those "happy accidents". Since I am more of a sonic texturalist rather than a tune writer - I have been content using Metasynth. Its just that I can't write a decent melody line to save my life.
The worst was that my wife said all my stuff sounds the same - ouch!
Anyway since misery loves company, I like to hear how others deal with "failed" pieces. Also if you want to hear Feed Lucy in its current state, so that you an provide constructive comments, let me know.
not an Obliminal thought in his head
|
|
|
Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 9:33 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
I'd say 'failure' is a very relative thing largely based on expectation. I've also found that some people love pieces I thought didn't work. And certainly vica versa  . I didn't say anthing about your previous Lucy pieces, but I did listen to them more than once and dug a lot of what you were doing. So yeah, let's hear it 
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
|
|
|
(((stereofect)))
Joined: 09/02/01
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1333
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 10:05 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Try using a different approach?
Try a new piece of music software.
“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
|
|
|
Fourier Wave Device
Joined: 08/13/01
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 77
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 10:29 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
P9 join the club! "Happy accidents" is the only method of composition. And "all songs sounding the same", that would be called your "style".
Pull yourself together man!
|
|
|
Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 11:24 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
yeah, what they said. good points. fwiw, to my mind if you are primarily a 'sonic texturalist', but you're wanting to write within traditional song structure, then it may be a bit of an ongoing challenge.
that said, I just listened to all your tracks; it's not what I would usually listen to, but I liked buzz and the burns, and I thought the Lucy pieces were definitely your best work so far. dug the sonics a lot and all three were hooks. looped 'em  
I think you're on to something actually.
it's a trick - don't listen to the evil voices in your head
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
|
|
|
A Bit Crusher
Joined: 01/26/02
Location: Tilburg
Posts: 1794
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 11:35 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Focus on the rhythm only (?)...maybe.....and find someone who can write a decent tune to cooperate with...
Or buy a sample-CD.... 
|
|
|
Sonic Wallpaper
Joined: 05/22/01
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1266
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 11:43 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
>>>My own limitations as a musician have been made glaringly apparent on this one and I am not sure what to do.
slamming into one's own limitaitons can be rough, espeically when you personally strive for something new or different. Apparent walls blocking our wants, goals and plans - seemingly solid, yet transparent. Or maybe, an opportunity for a change in direction?
>>>In some ways it has made me question my whole approach in using Metasynth and my dependance on those "happy accidents". Since I am more of a sonic texturalist rather than a tune writer - I have been content using Metasynth.
It's good to question one's methods, and look for opportunities to change perspective. Also, don't reduce your methodology to pure accidents - it takes a great ear and mind to sit down and generate accidents and be able to sift through and identify the gems. If you ride the creative process as one who listens for the beauty in the chaos, you have to accept that the chaos will win sometimes, and that no matter what you do, it's not going to happen. The flipside of that, is the joy of allowing yourself to flow in the music making process - riding the happy accident wave and creating music you just can't 'write.'
>>>Its just that I can't write a decent melody line to save my life.
I think the lack of vocals in electronic music can often create an empty space where we feel we need some other element. My recent track has this issue. I think the majority of us have trouble creating a good melody - and most of us work around it by adding in samples of noises, or spoken samples, or simply filling the space with rhythm.
I bet you can scat or sing melodies all day long - but when you are recording, you simply have troubles getting whats in your mind out of your hands. So... sing into a mic and create your melodies with your voice - then use an audio-to-midi conversion (or buy an old Roland G-10 guitar-midi interface), and convert the audio. With the Roland guitar interface, you can plug a mic in and generate midi with your voice. Then once it's down, you can shape it a bit and bam - you have a great melody!
>>>The worst was that my wife said all my stuff sounds the same - ouch!
does she like your music? and yes, as stated above, it's simply your style she's talking about. But - if you don't like the idea of having such an identifiable style, then recreate your music - create a new artist name, change software and genres, and find something new.
>>I like to hear how others deal with "failed" pieces.
I save them to a directory, and try to open them up every 2-3 months to see if there's anything to salvage.
Earlier this year I started a new track and was video taping the music making process - with the idea that I was going to edit it down and release a video showing how I make music. After many hours of work, and lots of time editing the initial video sessions... the song seemed to die in front of me. Not only did I feel like I failed with the song - I felt a bit crushed because I had plans for the whole thing to be on video and now I just have a partial video of a failed song.
Relax - enjoy - and try a few remixes to get your head into another space.
|
|
|
A Bit Crusher
Joined: 01/26/02
Location: Tilburg
Posts: 1794
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 11:54 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
>>I like to hear how others deal with "failed" pieces.
I save them to a directory, and try to open them up every 2-3 months to see if there's anything to salvage.
I agree! I never ever delete anything...I sometimes go back to stuff I did years ago...
And I think it's sometimes better to NOT have it at your hard disk at all...
It may be better to have it somewhere where it's not so easy to upload it to your setup...
Just back it up on DVD and leave it at a friend's house telling him not to return it to you within 1 year...
After that the stuff you did sounds fresh again....
|
|
|
Kylo
Joined: 02/16/05
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 787
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 12:00 PM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Okay bro, here's one of my methods for "pulling out a melody" for your malady:
Try listening to your musac upside down hanging from the ceiling. 
jk, no- just give yourself a break. Don't be in any rush to complete it. Sometimes I get a melody by going throughout the day in a 'non-music' atmosphere and I start to hum melodies in my head particularly upon how I feel. Easier said than done yes, but give yourself a break is my suggestion- cut yourself off for at least a day- regain your composing consiensness. (consionsness?) I forget how to spell that.
Anyhow, it's easy to forget how frequently music constantly fills our ears and how badly inhibited it gets ratted into our heads even if we don't like it! Soon, it seems to shape us in our composational values & AAAHHH!!!
As for happy mistakes- Hell yes! That sounds like a name for someone's tune around here. I get happy mistakes ONLY through filtering a lot of baaad mistakes-
I have three compositions in the process right now- I switch back & forth between them when I get sick of micro-composing tones etc... Try making a new one- Escape from Lucy... (I know that taking a break completely contradicts what I've just mentioned, but you'll know what you want to do.)
Also- one last thing; if you have available a small recordable device- and record your voice when you have a melody in your head- make sure you save it. For me, I do just that- but I usually use a lot of transitions to fuse the melodic ideas which causes a rather unwanted feeling of "ADHD" sounding stuff, but that's me and I like it I guess.
And F is for float~ floating like a boat in the clouds of smoke... (That's why I was a failing student in school)
I guess it's called 'Winnie the poo syndrome'. Feel better man.
(All this positive talk- where do we pull it out of!?)
"Energizer bunny arrested- charged with battery."
|
|
|
Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Monday, November 27, 2006 at 10:41 PM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Quote:Try listening to your musac upside down
well, actually the beatles used to get some of their melodies by playing popular songs & classical pieces backwards & then tweaking what they lifted. so, might work
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
|
|
|
P9FM
Joined: 03/29/02
Posts: 198
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 at 6:23 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Thanks to everyone for providing perspective
MC - since you asked here is the track
Feed Lucy - F is for Flutes, Fiddles and Filter
http://www.ArtistServer.com/m1/639/846/media/20884.mp3
and thanks for your other comments - I also thought that the Lucy series just seemed to be coming together real well until this last detour. I may just post this one and move on to the final 3 in the series, but any comments about how it could be improved would be deeply appreciated.
FWD - I agree with your stlye comment
SW - What can I say? thanks for taking the time to provide such carefully thought out advice. Your comments were very insightful and helped alot. Its the self editing that's the hardest part for me. My Obliminal project gives me the other approach outlet that I need, since the focus is more on playing instruments rather than constructing tunes. Also my stuff get brutally edited in Obliminal.
Kylo - I may try your humming approach on the next one. Either that or I may just pull out the Saxxy. yes I agree F is Float
Thanks again everyone!
not an Obliminal thought in his head
|
|
|
Kylo
Joined: 02/16/05
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 787
|
|
F is for fucktards
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 at 11:46 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
It lacks rythm and percussive detail in certain areas. I do believe; that you are certainly reaching out to this beautiful sound and you're almost getting it; which in its own way is pretty interesting- It's already very hypnotic! That's a plus...
That popping bass sound sounds like a live recording at 7 secs into it... I would either perfect the ryhtm on that puppy, or completely remove it because I feel that's the first sign of your troubles. Cuz' right at 10 secs I'm really not sure if you're intending dynamics right there, or purposfully becoming a little more flamboyant with your strokes? Or perhaps you created the tune 'before' you made that sample and it's just hard to match the tempo...
At 30secs I am totally feeling the groove~ very well... Your atmosphere is awesome, I love the choral dynamics. Maybe pull down that chello a hair in volume- it kind of takes too much lead for me. The feedback synth is a hair strong too- but it sounds great; maybe stick a reverb on it to 'lift' the sound more.(reverb fixes everything ya know) The transition at 1:47 is nice an mellow; feels as though you are drawing back and getting ready to pounce onto a cool melody and fluxuate it throughout the rest of your tune... (but maybe that's the trance thinking aspect) A lot of trance is all the same like that.
I believe you need some "spiritual percussion" to send you to the end of this one. This is your style, like Fourier said- it's unique in the way that it's very lifting in a spiritual way. The fade out at the end is awesome- extend that ending for those synths to finish fading out~ very cool.
But mainly, I want to hear some stronger percussion. I think that would help you a bit running throughout it.
In Lucy mix 1 you have a strong quarter-note rythm that pulls you through! I just noticed that... So definitely get some kind of rythm for this new mix... If it's not your strong point, use higher pitched sounds to make melodies that 'pull' your other melodies.
If you like, I'll help you make a rythm. Just give me the tempo of the mix and I'll throw a jammer toward ya.
"Energizer bunny arrested- charged with battery."
|
|
|
P9FM
Joined: 03/29/02
Posts: 198
|
|
RE: F is for fucktards
Tuesday, November 28, 2006 at 1:13 PM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
Kylo - when I saw the title of your thread I was afraid, but then I remembered the SW thumb post. 
Thanks for the listen and feedback.
The track was intended to be in 3/4 time ( I did this in order to strech my Metasynth chops). But the rythms I came up with didn't seem to have that waltz groove but rather an eight / sixteenth note feel for 3 beats. I think I know what the problem is with this and plan to do a proper waltz time groove on the Gee Lucy track
the BPM is 107.52 - in fact all the Lucy tracks will be 107.52
So if you're up for creating something in 3/4 at 107.52 bpm, I will take you up on your offer.
Bass - I am gating the bass with a drum track which didn't sound so good mixed with the other drum track I was using. Maybe I will drop the gate.
I hear you about the cello volume, I think I may shorten the phrase just a bit
On the ending I had cut all the delay and reverb just before the end, I will leave it on.
Your "spiritual percussion" comment is very interesting and I will see what I can do.
not an Obliminal thought in his head
|
|
|
Michael Chocholak
Joined: 01/14/04
Posts: 135
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Wednesday, November 29, 2006 at 8:12 PM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
thx for posting the track - but now I'm totally confused - I don't hear anything about it that sucks. I think it fits well with all the other Lucy tracks. it's got some David Byrne qualities to it - which is a good thing. it might actually be my fav of the four. so I guess you were just having a bad day. I'd say pop it up there with the others. getting to be quite a nice collection.
out of curiosity... how did that particular bpm come about?
Que la musique sonne - Edgard Varese
You don't need a mouth to communicate, you don't need rules to create. Anything is a potential instrument. Play it. - MC
|
|
|
Multi-Panel
Joined: 09/23/01
Posts: 217
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 1:04 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
maybe your "bummed out" feeling is just a sign that your excellent posting spree is ending. time for a break.. gather new inspiration
let me listen to this piece of (@(!(*$) ;) ;)
hm. i like that ever returning weird loop, not sure if you should use the "violin" sound. (you know around 0.48 & 1.01) maybe this one feels a little chaotic/unfocused.
sorry not much advice.
|
|
|
Sonic Wallpaper
Joined: 05/22/01
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1266
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 7:30 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
SW - What can I say? thanks for taking the time to provide such carefully thought out advice.
I'm sure you already know all those things - but I also know what's it's like to toss it all out the window so easily because a track doesn't seem like it will come together. We've all been there - my own output last year slowed to a crawl... and at times this even had me woried... that I ran out of fuel!
|
|
|
doofgoblin
Joined: 01/21/02
Location: charlottesville, va
Posts: 191
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 9:56 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
I don't hear anything wrong with this piece really, especially when fit into a playlist with the other Lucies. In fact, I like this one too. The half-time vocoder behind the more prominent one is a nice touch.
in my mind, one simple thing you could do to really improve the piece would be to come up with even one variation on that vocoder. maybe transpose a couple of the stabs within the existing vocoder pattern and alternate that new version into the piece here and there.
but the tune works as is. if you hadn't prefaced it with your worries, I wonder if anyone would've noticed.
your bummed outness sounds like a seperate issue though. I know what you mean, and feel that way often after having a nice productive run (or after having a painfully unproductive time). can't tell you how many times I've got the feeling that everything I do is shit. for different reasons and concerning different elements all the time, but the same feeling nonetheless. I cycle out of it, though it's rarely easy to bear that in mind in the bottoms of the cycle.
ultimately, I think it's good to be brutally critical of your own process and product. suffer, man. 
|
|
|
P9FM
Joined: 03/29/02
Posts: 198
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 10:50 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
MC - yes I will be posting it tonight or tomorrow, I did make some tweaks. While I was making the tweaks I realized that things weren't as bad as I had imagined.
Quote:out of curiosity... how did that particular bpm come about?
I really can't remember, most likely I settled on it when working with the beats for the first Lucy. I usually gravitae towards the mid - tempo bpm anyway. Once I decided to move ahead with the series, I just felt it was good to have them all have the same bpm as sort of connective tissue.
Ludo- I was wondering when your comments would pop up
Quote:i like that ever returning weird loop
So did I at first, but it was bothering me after the 100th listen so I have cut it back slightly. The loud cello / violin (fiddles) part is being softened.
SW - At least I don't have a video of myself descending into the "even hate my rock and roll" funk. I was very frustrated with the track and felt it was on the verging of being overworked.
Doof - there are vocal samples, but no vocoder. I think I know what you mean. The latest round of tweaks that I made were focused on cutting some parts back and adding more drums and percussion. Now the piece is a little more dramatic.
Again I just want to thank everyone for the words of advice and encouragement. Maybe we need to have a "Therapy" forum
not an Obliminal thought in his head
|
|
|
A Bit Crusher
Joined: 01/26/02
Location: Tilburg
Posts: 1794
|
|
RE: F is for failure
Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 11:49 AM
|
Quote
Top Bottom
|
P9FM wrote:.... Maybe we need to have a "Therapy" forum
Count me in for that!
|
|
|
